Marty Rathbun’s true conflict is between his words and actions. I am not saying that Rathbun suffers from a conflict beyond his control, but one of his own device, that very few are willing to call him out on.
It’s a cynical and self-serving conflict of an evil little man trying to have things both ways. He promotes himself as one who wants to “save” Scientology while teaming up with its most dedicated, avowed enemies. But it gets him attention and donations and keeps him from having to get a job.
It’s a conflict that can only be ignored by those whose hearts and hands are not clean, or who are fellow suppressives who are only too happy to look the other way.
Some of the worst allegations and innuendo one could imagine are the stock in trade of Rathbun’s media comrades. You would have to think hard to come up with any foul lie or criticism that they haven’t already published about Scientology and LRH. And it’s not just media, it’s a handful of the most hateful professional critic-vampires who have ever tried to attach themselves to Scientology (Caberta, Bunker, Berry, etc.)
But Rathbun gleefully calls them friends and brothers, and does all he can to get them to publish his manufactured slander of the day. All while pretending he’s in favor of the “independent” practice of Scientology.
Yet while they make money attacking Scientology, these media types don’t attack Marty Rathbun, the “independent practitioner” of it. Why?
SPs are happy to see ANY destruction of something that helps. You can believe that even the media SPs know that Rathbun himself offers no help at all, or they wouldn’t praise or support him. If he offered any genuine help of any kind he himself would be attacked by those same SPs. It’s their nature and mission. They themselves can see that Marty Rathbun is an ally dedicated to the complete destruction of Scientology and its Founder’s legacy.
And even they can see that what Rathbun and his friends are engaged in is a pale, watered-down, altered and even unrecognizable version of the religion and its practice. So they don’t attack it.
Yet Rathbun keeps trying to sell the absurd idea that what he and his little clique of friends are interested in is Scientology practice, when all they are really supporting are the worst attacks on Scientology they can possibly muster.
Only those whose perception is dulled by their own accumulated transgressions against the religion, its Founder, and Scientologists could possibly overlook these contrary facts.
Great point. You could make a long list of entheta articles he’s praised and authors he’s supported, that are just pure attacks on Scientology and LRH, not the Church.
Ol’ Marty’s happy to jump on the bandwagon, in fact jump out in front of the parade and pretend he’s leading it.
Self-serving is right. He doesn’t care who or how many he harms.
It is a clear suppressive act to support avowed and knowing enemies and Rathbun and his friends know this. There is no escape from that, I don’t care how they might try to invalidate COB or justify their acts. It’s suppressive and they will have to live with that.
Thanks, you can’t say this too often. It is the big unanswered question with these characters.
Nothing can cover up the outpoint that even if one is critical with management or a manager, that doesn’t mean you should align with the enemies of the religion itself and its Founder. That is insane, and an obvious lie. Yet it is the bottled medicine that a few dozen nearly blind apostates and failures are being sold by Rathbun daily.
Great point — I hadn’t thought of that. The sp times goes after everything about Scientology but they’re totally okay with Rathbun’s version of it and don’t attack him. Maybe he told those reporters his real intentions, so they wouldn’t.
That is such an obvious point, but no one makes it. Why do media people dying to attack our religion not attack rathbun if he’s just trying to practice it?
Hmmm.
It’s kind of sickening the way people come out of the woodwork and try to impress you with their old stats and history like they are just good guys who have been victims. I don’t buy any of it, because of what you wrote here. Any good guy (or girl) wouldn’t support such enemies of Scientology, period. If they don’t know Marty is an enemy, they know that he supports the avowed enemies so its the same suppressive act.
I don’t care what kind of a hard time they had with training or sec checks or their own screwed up ethics cycles and games against the church.
The real conflict is just as clear as you made it here.
Keep up the good work.
Interesting point; even other Suppressives can see that Rathbun is up to no good, so they don’t attack him. Criminal Minds think alike, and associate.
Anyone who is honest about it can see that Rathbun is just a liar, and probably has been all his life.
“It’s a conflict that can only be ignored by those whose hearts and hands are not clean, or who are fellow suppressives who are only too happy to look the other way.”
This is of course the real story. Social personalities see the contradiction right away.
His support comes from those who gave up on themselves already or other suppressives anyway.
lol. well spotted outpoints. but I think a lot of people trash him for pretending he’s a Scientologist. even the anons know he’s just bs’ing people, but theyre glad he’s attacking.
You have expressed a couple of the most egregious outpoints about Rathbun very well.
Not only that, they are the 500-pound gorillas that Marty and pals don’t want to even acknowledge.
You know the media won’t call them out on it, except for that joker degrader shock jock who basically told him he was full of it. But even he was mocking Marty for his adherence, not his phoniness.
This is a good illustration of Rathbun’s corny pr/propaganda platform that only the dimwitted, suppressive, and failed can overlook or fail to see.
On the very surface of it, it is idiocy and a complete contradiction, but he gets a pass from those who are so hatred-riddled they’re willing to believe anything as long as it’s accompanied by an attack on LRH or Scientology.
Yeah, Marty’s lost some followers who can see how ridiculous his whole pretense is, and he’s gained a few who are even more credulous than those who left. By now, anyone who signs up with him is just advertising how far down the tubes they are.
You’d really have to have very little self respect left to join up with Marty with this whole outpoint being so obvious. They’re labelling themselves as gullible ignoramuses.
It’s just a sad and corny PR presentation that only those with mutual out ruds go along with. This is one big graveyard they all whistle past and decent people can see it like a sore thumb.
You have to agree to be a total phony to sign up with Marty on his natter blog.
Every once in a while you see a crack in Rathbun’s stupid presentation, like him calling M9 implanting. Then he just pretends no one saw behind his curtain.
Thanks, you found a way to say that Rathbun and his cult are idiots without calling them that. I was never able to do that, but his whole scam is so idiotic that anyone should be able to see it except real dunces.
The media types don’t attack Marty because he’s one of them and they love the conflict. Also, they probably paid him money and don’t want him to reveal that. That’s my guestimation.
The only people who are being fooled are his “followers.”
They’re sucking it up like cheap scotch, and aren’t in on the deal.
He’s a paid tool, and they are unpaid tools of Marty.
We have a lot of happy idiots here in Italy also who are doing the same thing as Rathburn and still acting loyal. It is what 1.1. squirrels do.
Seriously, that’s a great outpoint. Why don’t the anti-Scientology media go after Marty if he’s really a Scientologist?
You read the articles and it’s not the Church they slander, it’s LRH and Scientology and they ridicule and attack everything about it.
You spotted the source of it, I think. The attackers attack Scn because it really helps. Rathbun does not. He is no threat.
SP’s will support any activity that harms in the name of help…so goes it with Rathbun.
any genuine practitioners have no business being connected with rathbun or supporting him, and there are a lot who consider themselves that way who won’t touch him with a ten foot pole.
that should tell you what rathbun’s cult followers are really like. they’re part of the same sham.
Pretty pithy posting here, Vince. It really is that black and white a situation, and the rest is just smokescreen and unsophisticated natter that only gets through to those who can’t spot an outpoint, or won’t.
~
I’d like to see Rathbun stand up and give more than a lukewarm defense of LRH to one of these creeps, rather than just “agreeing to disagree” with them. He acts like he’s still begging the media types like Ortega for a license to survive.
Marty IS delusional and a pathological liar, but in fact knows how clear a conflict this is and prides himself on being able to blow it past his overt-laden audience anyway.
You can be sure he’s made a thorough study of the most outrageous propagandists of the past and mimics them.
when you put it this way, it shows what a slimy sales job rathbun is trying to pull off. it makes you wonder how a guy like that can sleep at night.
Rathbun is not the least interested in the actual practice of Scientology, just the appearance that he’s a focal point for all those scattered failed squirrels sitting out there in trees. That’s what he’s got, too.
You don’t see people who were really winning joining up with him, do you? You only see people who have been offlines because they screwed up their own bridge, usually long ago, or got themselves into a games mess, or couldn’t face a sec check with someone who actually knows how to operate a genuine meter. These guys know Rathbun won’t pull withholds and will validate their natter about the Tech, the Church, MAA’s, etc.
So he gets the squirrelly loons and the ethics cases who selected themselves out anyway. But they label themselves “independents” so they don’t sound like the disgruntled no gain cases they are.
Sorry, I know there are some people among them I used to think had a genuine shot and am sad to see them crawling along the bottom now with Rathbun pretending they are soaring above the clouds. At some point hopefully they will recognize what someone else here said recently — they are architects of their own universes.
You said, “It’s a conflict that can only be ignored by those whose hearts and hands are not clean” and that’s the story of those who natter along side him or support him in any way. There’s no way around it. You can’t support such SP’s and pretend you are a practitioner of Scientology.
It’s like a marxist pretending he’s a supporter of capitalism. It doesn’t work at all, the two things aren’t compatable.
I agree with you and only the blind can fall for this. I guess they have nowhere else to go, but keep telling themselves they’re really ok because there are others like them. maybe it will take a few years before they realize they’re going nowhere depsite all the talk.
and he has connected up with the absolute most harmful people he could find, notice that?
Exactly. If any one of them were to ask themselves what LRH would do or say about what they’re doing (honestly, that is) they would cave completely.
There is nothing they could say that would justify all the suppressive acts they have committed or are now party to. Nothing.
That’s at the heart of it technically, for sure. What we don’t see is the collusion between Marty and the media SP’s and Marty’s sources of funding.
Marty is a seriously conflicted individual case-wise for sure, but he’s engineered a silly conflict as you point out, that rational people can see easily.
But take a good look at what he writes, and what his friends write and you will see you are no longer dealing with rational people.
They might have some sophisticated sounding natter and justifications going for them, but not rational if you start noting the outpoints.
If anything has become clear about Marty over the last few years it is the fact that Marty is all about Marty. All acts are justified and all actions are Marty centered. He just can’t see beyond what Marty wants Marty gets.
The truth is Marty has always been an anti-Scientlogist and an enemy of mankind. Well hidden but nonetheless true.
You had me at:
What a pitiful little man, our rathbun. I care not for the scum that take comfort in the rolls of his fat or nether places, for they sold their souls before to other failures. I care not even for him, for his justifications are no more interesting than the fools who failed before him…the least he can do is be entertaining. I care only that he could have made just a few modifications to his life, kept his ethics in and when he erred not make compulsive excuses – it is lost potential. I could have been outside playing ball.
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Oh well. I’m glad Rathbun’s gone, or soon well be.
“But they label themselves “independents” so they don’t sound like the disgruntled no gain cases they are.”
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Everything you said StillAround, is amazingly correct. They are all gone, pretending to still be alive and of value.
We also don’t see any long term…anything. Long term funding, long term tech, long term people being attracted. This does nothing to counter that: He’s a failure long term, of course.
They seem to dig that medicine as well. ////they like being patsies.
It is hard to come to conclusions from a sample of a handful of people.
I don’t know if that is true. I think that Mr. Motivator’s compulsions would kick in so strong that he’d stare LRH in the eye and blame LRH for all the cute little Marty problems. OK. Then he’d cave. Like a puddle of pee.
Define life. I’m thinking he’s been lying for one of those eon things.
I’m sure they already know. It will all come in a little while. History shows that when the messiah-de-jour collapses that all conversations turn into “I told you so”. Rathbun will be a puddle that they will all pee in soon enough.
Keeping all the dunces in one spot has certain advantages.
that’s a great image. it seems like that’s how he jumped onto the ‘indy’ types and started acting like a leader of that sad little parade. but he also had to undermine a few terminals there too, to establish himself, like ethier. it just looked like a scummy power push. no wonder he accuses cob of that.
I agree. I’d like to see marty try to justify his romance with ortega to LRH. or caberta, or, or…
agreed, that is the big unanswered question and why none of them will even address it. there is no answer. it’s the one thing they hope no one will notice as they try to pull them off lines.
more likely they just know he’s one of them, pretending to be something else. you know they like his 1.1 approach of being a wolf in sheeps clothing.
you and me both, judy. I knew a few of the recent ones who popped up and also knew how bitter they were when they blew off years and years ago.
my firm opinion is that they each have a personal out ethics scene they don’t want to have known, and tried to go up the bridge without handling it. with one guy, I know it was a disreputable 2d habit, and he kept finding ways to justify it rather than recognize it as a dramatization of aberration and deal with it.
so what does he do? he natters on an on about how genuine he was all that time but was just given one hard time after another for everything under the sun. it wasn’t his fault, it was the “system”.
he’ll just never get free of it.
I daresay you wouldn’t find a single one of them that doesn’t have a major out ethics sit they don’t want revealed.
the rest of their crap just built on top of that.
~
there is only one way out for them, and that way is the way through. instead they’re trying to go around, in the worst possible ways. that will fail too, and they might ultimately realize that.
I’ve seen some of those anons and other critics who just eviscerate rathbun for the pompous liar he is. some also who just insist he can not be trusted (very perceptive) and others who demand that he come clean on all the garbage he perpetrated when he was in the church.
he’s not as popular with the entheta crowd as he would have you think.
thanks, philo ( I love reading your comments.)
you’ve mentioned his corny propaganda techniques before and it’s good that you point them out again. I tend to think that he’s just a flat liar that others won’t “call out” as the article says. but that makes me overlook the clumsy propaganda devices he tries to use, probably thinking he’s being really clever.
~
the amazing thing is that someone so stupid (for lack of a better word) could continue to not be spotted as such by his cult members.
sharpe, you said: “he’s gained a few who are even more credulous than those who left. By now, anyone who signs up with him is just advertising how far down the tubes they are.”
~
I’ll say that that is sadly true, because I’ve seen a couple people recently join up with marty that I knew well. one was a sweet guy with a severe reluctance to come clean (long ago) over what I would consider mere 2d peccadilloes, but it just halted him in his tracks back then. he was and probably still is a sweet guy, but now looks like he has just become a total non-confront case. the sad part is that after all this time of marty making clear what a Scientology hater (and would be destroyer) he actually is, that now he chooses to join up with him.
from a once sweet, capable guy, he now look like a “gullible ignoramus” as you say.
The ‘total phony’ part rings true. I’ve had contact with a few of them over the last two years and that has struck me each time. Scratch the surface and you get hatred and viciousness.
Great points; it’s like you’re reading my mind. I mentioned before that so many of these guys blow off at the point of sec checking. All manner of natter ensues (cost, out-tech, injustice, blah, blah, blah.)
“they label themselves “independents” so they don’t sound like the disgruntled no gain cases they are.”
Right on the money.
I spend time making sure family and friends are winning, and continue, for that reason. When it isn’t happening, it’s a sign there’s something in that person’s universe to handle. Period.
Technically sound, Still, thanks. Good to see you got something out of your training.
That’s a very good description of the rat’s nest I’ve been watching for the last year or so. You put it in clear terms, thanks.
There are more than a few that have gravitated to Marty that are like that, unfortunately. But few (of those I know) who were truly ‘sweet”.
Morose, motivating, yes.
You said that so well you made it all look obvious. Nicely done.
Those who aren’t so dull that they can’t see it, have to work hard to overlook his clumsy propaganda ploys. My favorite is his ham-handed use of “positioning.”
Another piece of tech he misunderstands, but that’s no surprise.
I know. They’d be well advised to wear asbestos suits if they tried. Love the use of “romance,” btw.
There are a lot more of them who have Marty’s number than those who don’t. But a lot are glad he’s attacking anyway, which is another sign just like the one mentioned in the article about the media not attacking.
That’s no excuse not to get out there and throw it around.
Yes, entirely consistent with the other characteristics.
I think you might have touched on a Marty nerve there.
The ones I’ve known are mostly those who could have put their energies into the 3rd and 4th dynamic efforts, but were caught up in a games condition for too long to do so. Lots of excuses, etc.
Seeing them go off the deep end wasn’t really a big surprise.
Well, Marty drinks alcohol regularly, for one.
They are happy idiots now, but they were unhappy idiots before, and did not help others but tried to look so.
Good analogy, and just as clear cut. Notice Marty backpedalling on his anti-capitalism views recently also.
You mentioned (among other excellent points): “These guys know Rathbun won’t pull withholds and will validate their natter about the Tech, the Church, MAA’s, etc.”
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This is exactly why Rathbun is a safe terminal for those who have decided to blow and turn enemy.
That is such a good point. They still have the “through” to get to. That business hasn’t gone away, it will still have to be confronted at some point.
summerwind – you forget that although Marty jumped on the indie scene and tries to be a leader, he himself has said that he doesn’t want to be a leader – he wants to make leaders. Do you remember that?
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He knows the whole indie squirrel thrust will fail, and so he doesn’t want to be its leader because he would then have to accept the fact that he was crap and it failed under him. Instead, he wants someone else to be ‘leader’ so then he can point the finger someplace. However, whoever is leader would have the ‘power’ (such as it is) and the money, and those are both things that The Rat wants for himself. So he finds himself caught up in the Shakespearean conundrum of “To Be or Not to Be.”
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The Rat viciously attacks anyone who shows any spark of individuality, leadership or disagreement with his self-anointment, and so ensures that no one can lead the squirrels, while he bemoans the fact that there is no leader, no movement, no gain.
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As usual, Vince’s article pointed up a fundamental psychosis of the The Rat.
Marty is that arrogant that he thinks he is better than LRH and could teach him a thing or two. In Marty’s universe he thinks he could easily justify his acts to LRH and he thinks that LRH would slap him on the back and thank him. He is that screwed up. And in case you think I am making that up, I assure you I am not. Marty told me as much to my face.
“It’s kind of sickening the way people come out of the woodwork and try to impress you with their old stats and history like they are just good guys who have been victims.”
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SA – you said, “You don’t see people who were really winning joining up with him, do you?”
‘
Controversial though it may be, I continue to think that Marty serves a purpose – unwittingly.
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The ONLY people that join him are people I am glad to see the back of. They are the trouble makers and the SPs, and they are drawn to him and gobbled up by his sticky lies and hate.
‘
In much the same way as surgeons have returned to using disgusting creatures like maggots and leeches to eat away dead and decaying flesh in an operation, so too does Marty fulfill a similar role.
‘
In the meantime, the handling is to Flourish and Prosper which we are doing just great, and which becomes more and more evident as the year progresses.
‘
2012 will be known as one of the greatest years in Scientology expansion.
‘
Marty will be kicking himself down the track when he realizes in some dim foggy way that despite his intentions to destroy, he, in a warped and twisted way, inadvertently contributed to that expansion and hastened his own demise.
Superb analysis Sal – a scam within a scam. How Rathbun-esque.
The really pitiful part of that is seeing his cult members ignoring that but contributing to it.
You see some apparently rational comments, but mostly just hate filled comm that’s easy to spot on the tone scale.
no, far from rational, especially when you notice how so many of them are so completely stuck in the past. I’ve been seeing people bring up complaints from 25 years ago when they had their big fail, blaming it on others – still!
That’s one of the more revealing thing about attackers (and self described “critics”).
They love to criticize and attack, even other critics and attackers. Like scavengers snarling at other scavengers at feeding time.
Calling what they do “scientology” is itself irrational.
Thanks, Philly, for not saying anything about throwing like a girl. But Christine made a good point, expecting rathbun to change for the better was a total waste of time.
That’s a good guestimation, almost a guarantee.
He did that because some hinted about his marxist economic views and politics. He doesn’t want to push any more of his cult away with his real intentions.
If you look at the tone scale and politics, you see that Marty favors the 1.1 and below. He had to backtrack on things so he wouldn’t be so spottable by those few among his readers who still pay attention to those things.
I find the most ham handed to be his efforts at redefining terms. They’re just so blatantly propaganda, but he acts like he’s now a big “source” on something.
That’s all part of the subterfuge of the low toned, Judy. It’s the hallmark of Rathbun and virtually all of his friends.
I’ve watched one after another of them come out acting all innocent and just poorly treated rapidly sink into some hateful and vicious attitudes they were just hiding in the first place.
They seem to do it once they get comfortable in Marty’s forum and get plenty of agreement from others that their motivators and justifiers are valid, and caused by someone else.
That’s a great description of that whole disaffected field, stillaround.
Why would someone who was winning go looking for a shoddy, perverted substitute?
It has an appeal to people who want to blame others for them not winning. That’s probably the big lie beneath their situation that keeps it from resolving.
It’s only the group agreement they get from the others who are lost that fools them.
He couldn’t have made it any more obvious, unless he came out and announced his real intentions I guess.
thanks. it also speaks to his low courage level. he’s done that with the legal cases, too, pretending to be just a legal expert advisor and letting other people be the figureheads when they lose as they always do. maybe that’s why he likes berry so much.
Marty saying he doesn’t want to be a leader and then doing everything he can to be considered a leader of some independent movement is just another great example of his tone level and the 1.1 aspect of all he does. He even has others like Rinder and Hall doing the work of promoting him as a leader, while he says he doesn’t want to be.
It just smacks of the worst, most corrupt personalities I’ve ever seen.
You notice that Marty always wants to have a fall guy for his next attack. He’s not a brave individual, he just plays one on the internet.
“So he finds himself caught up in the Shakespearean conundrum of “To Be or Not to Be.”
~~
Or the classic indecision of the aberrative personality.
“The Rat viciously attacks anyone who shows any spark of individuality, leadership or disagreement with his self-anointment,”
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He doesn’t usually have the guts to do that; he sics Rinder on them to start the feeding frenzy.
There’s almost nothing Marty’s not covert about.
I think I know who youre talking about, and it is sad to see. But I ran into him a few years back and he had just given up and was just “enjoying life” in his own little corner. Someone must have coaxed him out of it.
I don’t think you are making that up. You can see his real regard for LRH when you hear him talking about him as a “real” guy with flaws, etc., and other code that he uses.
That follows from what he told you about what LRH would be like now, which was so out-reality as to be clearly insane.
Marty never did have much traffic with spotting outpoints, particularly in himself.
I’m sure he has some choice quotes he’s pulled out of context that he would use, in fact I’ve seen them from him and others like Sam Dingo. Still, I agree with the asbestos suit scenario when you look at all the gross suppressive acts they have engaged in.
I don’t recommend reading other entheta sites, but you are right. its practically a daily sport making fun of rathbun and his clumsy lies and false presentation.
Thanks Sig – that really gives an insight into our man marty. Perhaps he is trying to prove LRH wrong by showing that he can be an absolute idiot.
So that is the one thing…not the rusted meters in the corner or the lack of a C/S or courseroom. Jeesh. They must think everyone’s observation level is as low as theirs is.
None of them are as smart as they think that they are clever. Glad we won’t have to worry about any of them pretty soon, looking at their mutual trajectories.
A point to remember since for every “news” source trashing Scientology, there are hundreds of articles and people saying great things…there are only really a few of these scoundrels about world-wide.
It is as if they can’t keep the disguise on long enough, then do their typical justify/motivate and skip it entirely as they dwindle down.
I better go get a higher resolution cell phone.
It sounds like I am not the only one who is amused by their ability to carve themselves to pieces as they fall.
It is so amusing to see someone with such blatant misunderstoods trying to fit into shoes when the gangrene has already taken his feet.
That is never good to see in people. You would think they would have some self-perception but I suppose all the dust they churn up confuses them.
Such poetry, THAT Wall. Thanks.
They are sham-ful people, that’s why.
They can’t see how blind they are or how detrimental they are being to themselves. Fortunately, most have so little reach that it doesn’t matter except if you are interested in watching people destroy themselves.
Tough planet when you can’t confront something so minor as money or your own overts and withholds.
Independent on a planet and in a situation that requires clever and trained groups…not so smart, but they are only-ones so they know better. (Damn, where’s my smirk emoticon?)
And how desperate do you have to be to bloviate about how this was the best you could find?
Trumpets should be used to make that phrase more emphatic.
Good idea. Saturday, park. Bring gloves and your favorite bat.
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