They know we’re effective and they have things they’re afraid we’ll find out. When you cut through all the brouhaha and hullaballoo, this is sitting right in front of their faces and it clearly scares them to death. Why else would they make such a desperate fuss?
As early as 1959, when LRH was giving a talk in Australia, he said:
“If anybody in the world thought we were fakes and it was a lot of bunk, they would never attack us for a minute. Look around you and you’ll find all kinds of palmists and fortunetellers and thingamabobs and cults and anything you want to mention. And nobody is busy attacking them. They only attack the real McCoy.”
Marty Rathbun and his minions see us opening Ideal Org after Ideal Org around the world, and hear of the international acclaim we’re receiving for all our humanitarian and social betterment work, and see that we are cranking out real OTs daily, and more Scientologists than you can count training their way through the full Basics of the same Scientology tech that scares them so much.
It’s enough to drive any SP mad, and make them more and more desperate to stop us!
Aside from our effectiveness, what are they afraid we should find out?
We already know of Rathbun’s crimes, including some he could and should have spent jail time for (but carefully concealed until the statute of limitations ran out.)
This has all been corroborated after the fact by subsequent investigations. And if this is what he admitted to, imagine what he’s still afraid will come out!
Anyone with any sense would know that the claims made by Paul Haggis in the recent media attack are what has been fed by Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder and his extremist friends who have been making such scurrilous and false accusations for years. The journalist should have at least cross-checked some of the facts with someone who wasn’t a vicious religious bigot, scared of what the Church should know about them.
As a sure indication that there are skeletons he’d rather hide, Haggis tried to head off possible revelations of what he’s really been doing, saying that he expected a “scandal” about him to be the result of his attack on the Church. Methinks he knows he deserves to be exposed…hmmmmm….
Hell, he admitted to early criminal acts he withheld, and you can be sure that’s only the tip of the iceberg.
We’ll stay tuned…
Meanwhile, here’s more from that LRH lecture of 8 November 1959 to put the above quote into context:
“Communication will never hurt us but suppression of it will. That’s for sure. They can’t say anything bad enough to turn anybody against us. But they run a terrible risk—that which you resist…
“The only reason I’d feel bad at all about any of the—some of the press stories, and so forth, I see coming out—if it’s made any of you feel bad or made any of you upset. They certainly haven’t any effect on me anymore. I’ve read them all before and I’ve seen the guys that wrote them before, now writing little favorable mentions…
“…But that is the course of these attacks. All you have to do is ho-hum it and carry on one-way or the other.
“We had, however, learned a great deal about such attacks and we find out they are basically initiated by people who have things that they themselves never want discovered. And they get so worried about these things being discovered that they’ll attack anybody as soon as they feel he is on the real line…”
I guess the short answer is: yes, they’re media whores. The latest article totally trashed Scn and LRH and they are happy about it. Yeah, right, they’re the *real* standard tech alright.
Squirrels and whores.
“…they would never attack us for a minute…. They only attack the real McCoy.” That pretty much says it in a nutshell. Every time I see an attack, or even someone making snide remarks about Scientology, I think this. If we weren’t getting TA, and if we weren’t a threat to those who have things to hide, you’d never hear anything negative.
“Hell, he admitted to early criminal acts he withheld, and you can be sure that’s only the tip of the iceberg.”
I think this is probably true of just about every one of the vicious little natterbugs in marty’s corner.
Well, having looked over the things Rathbun’s admitted to, like costing the church $50 million in unnecessary costs (the church says it’s much more) and criminal interference in official investigations, and of course the dozens of cases of abuse, I can only wonder what Rathbun has to hide.
It has to be pretty damn serious and disreputable. Based on his actions (and words) then and since, I guess I wouldn’t be surprised by any crime of Rathbun’s that came to light.
“Marty Rathbun and his minions see us opening Ideal Org after Ideal Org around the world, and hear of the international acclaim we’re receiving for all our humanitarian and social betterment work, and see that we are cranking out real OTs daily, and more Scientologists than you can count training their way through the full Basics of the same Scientology tech that scares them so much.”
~
Boy, Joe, this really does make their painful little complaints, no matter how *sensational* they try to make them, seem as insignificant as they really are.
What is the deal with Paul Haggis? Is he now an “independent”? Also, what crimes did he commit before he blew?
He’d like to be a media whore, but like with everything he is not so successful. A couple interviews, a spot on TV…he is supposed to be an expert at that kind of stuff and he can’t even make an impact that doesn’t prove himself a liar – and a desperate one at that.
What is amazing about this is that except for a niche article and an interview that he probably wishes was forgotten since he fared so poorly and was so clearly labeled a liar by his wife (and that, many months ago), there isn’t any real attacks on the Church. The nutcases in country after country are losing credibility while we are clearly helping more, expanding more, being relied upon more.
That will only make him more frustrated and desperate. Now that he has gone through all his easy buddies who have found that he has nothing to leach from, he is isolated. I predict a few lame attempts at getting noticed and then a fiery descent, probably with angles that he failed with before; tax fraud for certain, probably violence, probably legal traps that he gets into with his pretend friends. It won’t be fun to watch, but it will be good to see.
Insignificant is really the appropriate word Terri. Rathbun has lost even his lame plot. Comparing one hours worth of production at any of the existing or new orgs to all of Marty’s silliness is beyond measurable orders of magnitude.
Are there any actual natterbugs anymore? I think they are all Marty and Rinder and perhaps their wives. The others thought there was something to latch onto, some money at least. But they have come and gone.
I must have the wrong definition of “media whore”. I thought that you had to be someone who could use their limelight to create more limelight. Marty was and is a nobody. The only limelight he has is by being an ex-scientologist who by his own admission failed as an executive. McLuhan’s 15 minutes multiplied by the ease of using the internet, divided by incompetence and the desperate fear shown in the famous psychotic spitting video=RathbunBurnout Quotient.
He thinks that he will be exposed? He of the famous bare-assed in the woods, drunk tank on his wedding night, audits without C/S or Qual, and proclaims new variations on LRH issues while saying that he is a friend of LRH? Rathbun may or may not be a media whore, but he sure is an ineffective pathetic narcissist.
I find the arrogance of these characters appalling. Somewhere in their own little alleged minds they actually think they will “bring down” the Church?
That’s like bringing down Freedom. You can smash a manifestation of it, but you will never bring it down. Scientology is a native truth much like the idea of Freedom. You’ll never kill it.
When you say desperate, I think of that wacked out video of Rathbun at his truest, storming at himself like flea with an infected tick stuck to his back. He has to be twice this desperate since nothing he is doing is creating an effect.
“Well, having looked over the things Rathbun’s admitted to, like costing the church $50 million in unnecessary costs”
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This is the sort of thing that should make him shudder if he has any inkling that HCO PL Financial Irregularities is true.
Great imagery, Christine. Makes me wonder what twice the level of desperation looks like?
Media whores is an understatement!
Media whores they are. Your definition is probably the most used one, but they are media whores in that they will do anything for any kind of media attention. They will bend over backwards to get their names and criticisms in print, even if it means the media trashes Scn and LRH, which they claim they still have respect for.
“Why else would they make such a desperate fuss?”
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Both Rat and Rin have already committed such horrendous and costly overts against Scientology and LRH that their need to justify alone keeps them finding more and more outrageous things to claim about the Church.
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The fact that they are hiding within a circle of people, not one of whom has clean hands, that share their justification-hunger encourages them and helps them avoid confronting the facts of their own crimes. But they’re still there.
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These two will be carrying that stuff around with them for eons to come.
I wouldn’t be surprised either, frankly. I think there are some real Sherman-tank sized crimes these two are still withholding. And lord only knows what Haggis had been up to in the 30 plus years he pretended to be a Scientologist. I’m not so sure his whole “membership in the Church” wasn’t just a cover for some pretty disreputable stuff.
hey, that video is unforgettable and as I’ve said before, you’re seeing the real rathbun there. no social pretense, no “pr tr’s” no phony charisma. the guy is a mess.
I think of that, too. If we weren’t impinging, who would even care?
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Plus, we’re not seeing who is behind the media attack, are we?
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Sure, the author is an anti-social personality as are his editors, and the people they highlighted as part of making their case against the church, the Founder and the religion itself.
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But there’s more behind it you can be sure.
You would think that the way Rathbun has been so abused by and in the media that he would slink off with his tail between his legs. He was particularly snookered by the BBC.
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But, like Rinder, he has no shame. They had to act like they “meant to do that,” and hell, they probably did. Anything they could do to harm the repute of LRH and Scn is ok with them.
Yeah, that is the big, elephant-sized outpoint to what they do: they pretend to be pro-LRH and pro-Scientology, and yet can’t keep their fingers out of any effort to disgrace both in the media. We here are the only ones who seem to call them on it. Even the dirty-handed yokels who pop out of the baseboards occasionally and declare their “independence” from the church never seem to bust them on this, even as their declarations try to make everyone think they “respect” LRH.
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Bullshit. Plain and simple.
They truly are small and insignificant. It’s only their presence on the internet, where virtually any lowlife can hide behind a nicely crafted webpage, that they can make themselves look like more than they are.
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To hell with that. We have a voice, too.
Well, we have all the marvelous “OTs” that Rathbun is making to look forward to.
He’ll probably fill a spin-bin before he’s done.
Well, Joe, I think your looking directly at these two mutts with this. We know they’re criminals, and now they don’t even have the Church to keep their ethics in.
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Yeah, I think they have a lot of crimes they committed when they were in that they never disclosed, but who knows what they’ve been up to since. Someone mentioned taxes, and that wouldn’t surprise me. I mean Rinder couldn’t even do the marriage certificate properly, so who knows what kind of tax entity these geniuses are hiding money behind…
“Anyone with any sense would know that the claims made by Paul Haggis in the recent media attack are what has been fed by Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder and his extremist friends who have been making such scurrilous and false accusations for years. The journalist should have at least cross-checked some of the facts with someone who wasn’t a vicious religious bigot, scared of what the Church should know about them.”
I scanned through the article and it looked like half of it was copied off Marty’s writings (the ones I know of.)
Am I mistaken in thinking that it was like a laundry list of Rathbun’s natter? (Except perhaps the parts that tried to trash LRH. Marty seems to avoid that and pretend that he still follows the tech and LRH.)
I guess that’s what you mean about Rathbun and Rinder being media whores. They got all their “talking points” covered and seemed like they were able to introduce some of their little pet SP’s, like Scobee, to the writer. But they did it at the expense of LRH, who the writer really went after.
I had found out Haggis blew when I saw the trailer for the last movie he directed, and I spotted Jason Beghe in it. I wondered what he was doing, having comm lines with an SP, and that’s when I read his wikipedia page and saw he too had blown (in the stupidest way possible, btw!).
Since his last flick did quite poorly at the box office, it isn’t hard for me to see why he would now turn his efforts towards attacking Scientology (I mean, besides having undisclosed O/Ws!). He needs to do this to stay “relevant”.
He never was anywhere that he could “blow” from. He pretended to do services about 30 years ago, but never completed anything since. All he says he got out of it was a basic understanding of ARC. Never did any courses or even read a book. Thought the OT levels were “metaphors” and freely admitted he didn’t understand didley.
So, no, he’s not an “independent.” He’s seeing psychs now.
I think he’s trying to make it look like a “warm and fuzzy guy who cares about people and happy that we’re all free” or some such garbage.
If his wife can keep feeding him raw meat a couple times a day, and get him semi-sedated with alcohol at night, he might stay out of trouble.
I think you’re right. The natterbugs, almost each one of them, portray themselves as good, honest, innocent people who just happen to be spouting ARC break generalities about how badly they were treated and “how bad it all is over there.”
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That’s a sure indicator of people who need to disclose their o/w’s.
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You just could not get into the situations they are each in without having a lot of them. Doesn’t happen. It’s not just a good idea, it’s the Law.
Beghe is probably the one who put Haggis in touch with his “best friend” Rathbun. Neither of them “blew.” Beghe was a refund case and was always just a pc. Haggis was someone that nobody really knew was a Scientologist he had been off lines for so long, and probably just did what you said – tried to get his name out there after a couple of box office bombs. He hasn’t got anything in production after those stinkers.
You spotted it well, Ginger. It looked like a Rathbun laundry list to me, too. It looked exactly to me like Rathbun told Wright who to talk to and what “story” they had to tell.
And you and I are on the same page when it comes to how Rathbun and Rinder don’t care how LRH and Scientology are trashed, as long as they can get their lies and natter points out there.
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They are repeated suppressive acts, per policies that LRH wrote. (And they’ll still try to sell people that they are “pro-LRH” and “pro-standard tech,” etc.
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Completely psychotic.
That’s how I always think of him. It’s something he can never take back. We’ve all now seen him when he thinks no one’s watching. The other lasting image is the one of him in jail, happy to be at home in the middle of all those other criminals.
The thing that makes Marty shudder is each new Ideal Org. He’s got a lot coming.
I think beghe is the one who introduced him to the Rat. They were a natter match from the beginning. Haggis needed publicity and Rathbun is a media whore.
Beghe has been involved in a lot of bizarre out-2D for a long time, probably Haggis, too. That’s probably their real common ground, that and perhaps abusiveness. Beghe is an abusive personality, and Haggis, like the other criminals he’s associated himself with, is accusing others of those things he’s likely guilty of himself. We’ll see what comes out about him now that he’s opened himself up for that kind of effect.
Haggis knows nothing about the laws of living. He doesn’t know, for example, that he has now opened himself up for unpleasant effect. He went for an effect he wanted (publicity/relevance?) by attacking honest people. By doing that, he’s also open now for unpleasant effects, like his withholds coming out…
there’s a hardcore of indies who fool themselves into thinking they are still scientologists, but they are not. then there are the others that rathbun and rinder associate with and cooperate with who are pure scientology haters. using the internet, they manage to look like more than they are, but mostly it’s just a group of natterers who have nothing better to do with their computers.
but I guess the bottom line is that they are suppressive, and are driven by that.
As overdrive said, their arrogance is appalling. Uber-narcissist is more like it. Delusional is another description.
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Still, Rathbun is pathetic. Anyone with logic, perception, the ability to spot an outpoint will find him laughable. Only those who need the motivators he encourages will buy his BS.
He’s probably on psych drugs now. It’s hard to go into therapy and avoid them.
Yeah – Rat and Rin never saw a criticism of LRH or Scientology that they didn’t like.
“Completely psychotic.”
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Rathbun and Rinder are certainly pushing the limits of “Absolutes are Impossible”.
OK, you convinced me. They are both, Rinder and Rathbun, media whores. The problem they have now is that they are dry – all the BS has been recycled. They are just two bare assed guys ready to violate laws, swear oaths they know are lies.
Especially when states like Texas are really in the drink financially. They just announced that they are almost as much in the hole as California. If the Texas Tax Authorities find that they are trying to hide funds behind fake (and unincorporated churches), they won’t let off. If they find that they are committing fraud across state lines, the Feds come in and I understand that they have some money problems too. The IRS looking after Rathbun and Rinder – the mind boggles what stupidity they will find, and what excuses they will try to come up with.
Bottom of the Bottle TRs is more like it.
Justification Hunger is exactly the right image. Making mistakes today that will suck the energy from them for a long time.
These are desperate times for the media. They keep getting caught covering for power instead of investigating it, purposely going after wrong targets instead of investigating the people who are causing war and drug epidemics for profit.
“that they can make themselves look like more than they are.”
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Even now it is obvious that they can’t get anything done though. All the pimped up marketing in the world won’t change that. They can’t get results with smoke. Their stories are old and the people that they attract have severe problems that are even older.
“Whore” implies selling your body. I’d say these jokers have sold their souls as well. What does that make them? Soulless Media Whores? (Anybody?)
Just remember a 1.1 has a facade of “good” and “morality”, etc. but behind that PR front things are the opposite.
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That describes Rathbun and Rinder – 1.1s putting up their facade and fooling people who are either too dumb, too uneducated or too corrupt to see through it.
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Never forget your Chart of Human Evaluation. Don’t leave home without it!
Exactly. Who gains (or who thinks they gain) from these attacks? Who thinks that Scientology, the Church and LRH are a threat to their revenues?
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As is so often the case on planet Earth all you have to do is follow the money.
“It has to be pretty damn serious and disreputable. Based on his actions (and words) then and since, I guess I wouldn’t be surprised by any crime of Rathbun’s that came to light.”
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It always amazes me at how dumb criminals are. If you have serious crimes in your past the logical thing would be to shut up and lay low. But criminals almost never follow that path. The instant anyone comes along who makes the criminal wonder whether the other person knows of the crimes … attack, attack, attack!
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It’s just a knee-jerk reaction that the criminal has no control over. Then the criminal finds other criminals (like certain journalists and their editors) and they have the same reaction.
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The only sin that we and the Church commit is that we have the potential to find out things. We honestly don’t care about the crimes of these psychos, we just want to make this world a better place. But we “might know” and so we must be attacked.
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So if Rathbun really doesn’t want his crimes exposed he should just shut up and quietly disappear back into the sewer from which he originated.
“The thing that makes Marty shudder is each new Ideal Org. He’s got a lot coming.”
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I guess you’re right. The predicted fate in Financial Irregularities is way above his ability to comprehend or confront. Ideal Orgs are right in his face.
“Yeah, that is the big, elephant-sized outpoint to what they do: they pretend to be pro-LRH and pro-Scientology, and yet can’t keep their fingers out of any effort to disgrace both in the media.”
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They play both sides since its advantageous to them. Anyone somewhat familiar with them knows they are enemies of Scientology and LRH.
“soulless media whores” works for me, and it applies to the writers and editors, not just ratrin.
my two cents
Don’t have to follow it very far. You can just connect the dots…
Well, there’s no state income tax in Tejas, but other tax entities exist. The IRS is what they would have to look out for, especially if they are thinking of trying to hide behind some sort of “non-profit” entity.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if Marty was thinking he could avoid paying taxes on his donations because they’re “gifts” and not subject to income tax. I hope he does that. With his “movement” members and friends “donating” to him, an IRS auditor would lick his lips looking over those accounts. These things are viewed as shams and they’re not just subject to taxation and penalties, they’re subject to a lot of IRS rancor when they’re found. That’s head-on-a-pike time for an IRS investigator.
That reminds me of Pee Wee Herman in his first movie, riding a bike down a street in front of other kids and doing a total kersplatt over his handle bars, then standing up and brushing himself off and saying, “I meant to do that!”
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The difference is that Rat and Rin are happy to be as destructive of Scientology and LRH as possible, and commit their suppressive acts knowingly and with malice aforethought.
“He went for an effect he wanted (publicity/relevance?) by attacking honest people.”
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This was fatally fickle on his part. He is dealing himself a deck’s worth of unpleasant hands to play.
Even if these two did manage to cross their “T’s” and dot their “I’s” properly, running a non-profit is a thorny business and easy to see through when they go afoul of the rules.
And we know what trouble these two pretenders have with duplicating and following policies.
“Plus, we’re not seeing who is behind the media attack, are we?”
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Yes, this would be interesting data to have although its probably not too difficult to guess.
It all sounds to me like the boy who cried ‘wolf’
Sooner or later, anyone has got to get tired of hearing motivator after motivator and realizes they’re are just on “automatic whine”
“Who gains (or who thinks they gain) from these attacks? Who thinks that Scientology, the Church and LRH are a threat to their revenues?”
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The basic “who” is probably little changed since the 1950′s.
Linebacker said:
“The thing that makes Marty shudder is each new Ideal Org. He’s got a lot coming.”
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I guess you’re right. The predicted fate in Financial Irregularities is way above his ability to comprehend or confront. Ideal Orgs are right in his face.”
~~~
I say Rathbun doesn’t have the courage to confront that. He and Rinder both *know* they’re sane.
But, like LRH said, he is “…cutting his own throat…” “In fact they are burying themselves. If they knew what they were burying themselves in, they’d faint.”
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Sure, Rathbun and Rinder can “audit” themselves all they want, but it won’t handle by a long shot.
“Anyone who has misdirected Scientology org monies will, of course, try to brush it off in various ways – black PR, belittlement, seeking to make nothing of the crime. But it won’t brush off, brother, it won’t brush off. THAT crime stood in the way of freedom. You better believe it.”
In PL Financial Irregularities (which Linebacker made me go read again) LRH says, “yes, I know the psychs believe they are just brains and thus soulless zombies…”
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So, how about Soulless Media Whore Zombies?
“Both Rat and Rin have already committed such horrendous and costly overts against Scientology and LRH that their need to justify alone keeps them finding more and more outrageous things to claim about the Church.”
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This is the material of which the dwindling spiral is made. Each one of those overts followed by its justifications are the brinks and mortar.
“Sure, Rathbun and Rinder can “audit” themselves all they want, but it won’t handle by a long shot.”
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We know they don’t pull withholds and handle overts tho’.
So that made me realize, if they DID try to handle their overts in session, that would be a withhold from the rest of their new “group.” Just the fact they were trying to handle their overts is against the mores of the indies from all I can tell.
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Marty himself has eliminated overts tech from Martyology, hasn’t he?
I like it – it’s real snappy.
Sorry, Philo. Now you’re making it sound like a really bad B movie…
Yes, it’s a pretty simple exercise – connect the dots. The dramatis personae may change occasionally, but the play remains the same. Like you said elsewhere, probably hasn’t changed since the 50′s.
Well, we can’t overlook the fact that each one of them has gotten themselves into a position where their own overts and out-ethics have created a situation that individuated them from the church and Scientology itself.
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They may try to now say they are pro-Scientology blah blah blah, but they are not using key basic data about their own clean hands and that alone will not only drive them to continue doing what they are doing, but will keep them from ever going OT. They have each got a big, nasty cloud sitting across their 3rd and 4th dynamics at least.
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All the mutual out ruds and internet complaining in the world won’t get them up the Bridge now.
“…it’s not just a good idea. It’s the Law.”
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I love that. (Did you steal that from me?)
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I’ve read some of their declarations or whatever you want to call them, and they are each one transparent to anyone with clean hands (or even a decent grasp of basic tech.)
Some are strident, overtly hostile attacks and some are pitiable victims who never did anything but good, but all are replete with motivators, justifiers, boilerplate Rathbun-natter (TM)
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And not one of them – not one – will make it unless they get honest and confront and handle their OWN ethics. It’s the Law.
He probably is on psych drugs. I met the guy years ago and talked with him. I saw him recently being interviewed, and he wouldn’t know his own valence if you handed it to him.
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He’s gone way, way south. This is a being in trouble.
Boy, right on every point, Dave.
You would think they would just lay low, but they have to attack to try and cut off the threat of anyone finding out. That’s pretty frantic.
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People like Rathbun should know we don’t care about the particulars (unless they could do time for them, which is probably the case) and are only interested in cleaning them up while we apply the thetan-boosters.
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Maybe when all is said and done, Rathbun does want to be found out?
As in “Attack of the Killer Soulless Media Whore Zombies”?
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Maybe Haggis could direct it !
They did much the same with the BBC, which did a trash piece so heavy-handed that it couldn’t even maintain the pretense of journalism. And they came off looking like dupes and fools. They’re so inverted now they still think it was a success. They are too unconscious to realize that not only did they trash Scn and LRH, they trashed themselves also.
Arrogance is right. They have so many problems that Freedom is far far above their conception. They just had to get beyond explaining how their screw ups were right. But they got trapped.
How could I forget that? I’ll bet that is how he really acted in prison, and how he will act when he is sent there again.
“We honestly don’t care about the crimes of these psychos, we just want to make this world a better place. But we “might know” and so we must be attacked.”
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That is so hard for people to grasp. I have no concern for his or anyone’s screw-up. But the mechanism is certain, and it is a trap. Get off the ‘wonder’, eliminate the charge of the mystery.
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“So if Rathbun really doesn’t want his crimes exposed he should just shut up and quietly disappear back into the sewer from which he originated.”
What a wonderful idea. Are you listening Marty?
They are surrounded by 1.1′s too. The whole presentation is phony. You will notice that any talk of ethics, morality, coming clean, really using the O/W tech points, etc, are totally absent from their discussions.
They are all “free” just like a bunch of psychology students.
Rathbun has practically outlawed overts/withholds tech. He doesn’t pull them, if people want to give them up, that’s ok, he won’t even write them down. People magically give them up to him, he doesn’t have to pull withholds.
`
Marty has such misunderstoods, and has perverted the tech so much that he thinks that people’s natter are their withholds. So his pc’s natter, he “acks” them and “really understands” them, and indicates an f/n.
Right. He did kind of look gleefully at peace with his own criminality, didn’t he?
That and shit-faced of course.
Good point. There is a pervasive attitude among the indies, and certainly in Ratboy’s corner, that personal ethics are not a factor. It’s an “anything goes” viewpoint, much like the one the psychs have been promoting since the 60′s.
T(hat’s completely aside from the outright degraded activities like drug use/alcoholism, bizarre 2D conflicts, flagrant squirrelling that are too common in that camp.)
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There’s too much they have to hide there, so they don’t go there.
You’ve been busy, Joe. I like your recent postings, and this one is good to see. You put it in proper perspective. I have to say I like the LRH quotes you put up that apply to the truly obvious suppressive things rathbun is up to day after day. Keep it coming.
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This is really the reality of the situation. The Church would not be being attacked if we weren’t effective or expanding and a threat to suppressives. SPs exist in all walks of life, but especially in the media, and rathbun and supporters seem to be big fans of a suppressive media.
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Keep their feet to the fire!
Joe, you said, “We already know of Rathbun’s crimes, including some he could and should have spent jail time for (but carefully concealed until the statute of limitations ran out.)”
I have to say here that this part of Rathbun’s story befuddles me. From what I can tell, there are a few dozen people who support this guy and seem to kiss his butt (pardon language) and treat him like he’s not just a criminal. What I’m getting at is how could these people overlook the long list of criminal acts that he’s committed and admitted to and just carry on beside him or treat him like he’s a friend or someone to support?
I’ll admit I’m green on these matters, but I have looked over what some of them are saying, and it makes no sense. It’s like they’re pretending he’s not a criminal!
Did I miss some stage in his past where he bamboozled them all and they all forgot what he did and now think he’s trustworthy?
LOL. I came here for a little light reading, and you supplied it, Philly.
I think that their own out-ethics makes them blind to the out-ethics in others, lest they confront their own.
Ah, but the compulsions drive him worse than a wife can keep him straight. Rathbun must must must prove himself right must must must prove Scientology wrong. Rinder seemed to have a handle on it for a while, then got caught up with the wrong crowd and lost his plot. Marty could never get his life back though, so here he is, dwindling down in public.
JonO, I’m with you. I mean, I screw up all the time, but maybe because I’m not surrounded by people with the same compulsion I don’t feel the force of having to dramatize my mistakes to prove they were right. Maybe Rathbun and Rinder get more than money from these mental sloths, buttressing their bare-assed bad ideas, or maybe it is plain ol’ contagion of aberration. My guess is that since they are all looking to prove the same right/wrong formula, they are just magnets for each other – magnets that are so weak that they can’t stick anywhere else.
It really does come down to production, doesn’t it? What do they have to show for the last 4,000 hours? An article already dead in the water, contrasted and forgotten among the truly inspiring freedom revolutions in the world, a TV show where they looked like fools, and which established them as liars even in their own group, and what else? Talk.
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Oh, some faux auditing, done without a C/S, without being ever trained or certified, done without a Qual, done without certified meters…which, all said, isn’t auditing at all. In fact, nothing they do is Scientology at all.
An now they have spent what little fame-by-association that they had.
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I bet they feel like Batty in Blade Runner. They ran around hurting people, they deliver a clever soliloquy justifying their terror, then “Time to die.” They’re fighting it but:
• each of them has betrayed their purpose,
• each of them became disreputable with their compulsions, and
• each of them are beyond their expiration date,
— with pretty much zero chance of changing themselves or
— doing enough right that they can salvage themselves.
Maybe that’s all it comes down to. I haven’t exactly been Snow White, but I can’t imagine being so out-ethics that I would hook up with someone so criminal for any reason at all. I think I learned early on in life that even minor criminals (like shoplifters) can’t be trusted and will turn on you.
Contagion, the criminal mind (criminals associating) and a kind of overt/withhold dwindling spiral all seem to be at play as you said. I guess they get so caught up in it they can’t see what’s in front of their faces – what I mean is they never seem to step back and say “what am I doing contributing to this major criminal?” (Rathbun)
Wow, pretty good analogy. Rathbun and Rinder do seem to have become Replicants. All but the superior abilities, that is; they’re missing that part. They didn’t just betray their original purpose, they never seemed to be able to competently perform.
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But their life span is ending, they are fighting it tooth and nail, and the image of hair-trigger violence is spot on.
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And of course, Batty was a whole lot more sympathetic and charismatic than either of them could dream to be.
JonO, I think you’re missing the fact that many of these Rathbunettes are criminals as well. The Criminal Mind data applies. It’s reflected in most of what they do, from the selfish, destructive efforts to destroy Scientology (while pretending to “save” it) to the glee expressed with every piece of entheta they see.
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They may work hard to appear like everyday, decent people, but they have each unequivocally stepped over the line into criminality. Unfortunately, a lot of them don’t realize it.
Not to mention all the criminal acts they engage in secretly. I’m sure those are what they consider their real products.
Nice, that’s the scene in a nutshell. I’d ad that the pimped-up marketing (great description of Rathbun’s blather) doesn’t compensate for one huge, glaring problem they probably haven’t spotted yet:
– - – Each one of them failed miserably on the third dynamic, and won’t get anywhere now unless they have organization and can be successful on the third (such as it is, with criminal/destructive purposes) – - -
..
Aside from the fact that they are operating on false purposes, a common denominator among them (exemplified by Rinder and Rathbun) is an inability to know, duplicate, and apply policy. They even debate policy, and what to keep/what to toss.
Very spot on, Dave.
You’ll rarely find a better use for the Chart of Human Eval than to keep it handy when looking at Rathbun and the “indies” on the net.
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From my observation, nothing is ever as it appears with these people.
Good posting, Joe.
We are all dealing with a “normal” of presenting things one way, when in fact things are different. The media is one of the best examples of this.
I can’t remember when I read a report of *anything* in the media that wasn’t replete with outpoints. Even the best, most seemingly-factual accounts of anything has at least a few outpoints.
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Homo Sap tendencies are no excuse for any of us to abandon the Tech we have (Data Series/Science of Survival.)
New article on the site Truth Be Told: “Here’s Your Heads-Up”
http://truthbetold.onsourcescn.com
“They are all “free” just like a bunch of psychology students.”
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That is their level of understanding LRH’s Tech. There are some people who just can’t connect all the dots, especially the ones that they think will harm them – for example, Affinity is OK, but Communicate about my overts? That’s a road too far.
“…and say “what am I doing contributing to this major criminal?” (Rathbun)”
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And Rathbun has to answer for that as well. Except there is no answer. He lies when he says he supports LRH data, then deals with criminals and people who clearly have the agenda to wrest all spiritual ideas from society.
Great post Lion. Hard to pick one thing to respond to since each one is worth a whole discussion.
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“All the mutual out ruds and internet complaining in the world won’t get them up the Bridge now.”
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These guys would say that they don’t want to go up the Bridge, but look at them all – trying to constantly be close to the fence. They all had the goal of spiritual freedom, they all knew where it was to be found, but each one also decided they couldn’t stay clean for long enough to work for it. But they stick around, as if they are hoping that if they stay close enough, someone will reach over and clean them up. They are truly ripped up inside.
Isn’t that the truth! “Hey! Just stop talking”, I want to tell them. Every sentence I hear from them is just another declaration of some other overt they are hung up on. Enough already! I don’t want to know the overt — if you have to keep talking Marty and friends, start saying “who nearly found out?” or “who did you think found out and what did they do to make you think they knew?” At least be productive when you are telling us your transgressions.
Instead of proclaiming that they are bare-assed in the woods (as they did), they should have used your imagery: Bare-assed in the dwindling spiral.
=-=
A flurry of dust here, a flurry of dust there, but after all the hype – What have they accomplished?
“And of course, Batty was a whole lot more sympathetic and charismatic than either of them could dream to be.”
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It is always dangerous to stretch an analogy, but I think it is a point that too the criminal class, Rathbun and Rinder are probably look on as sympathetic and charismatic…just as Batty is when you listen to that one piece of dialog…but you also have to forget the psychotic actions that he took. They were calculated, psychotic actions too, just like RatRin.
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History is replete with criminals who struck a chord for a little while. I guess that is what constant vigilance is about. In a free society there are people who will trod the edges with calculated, psychotic violence. You know that eventually they will cross the line and you have to be prepared for when they do. While they are staying in the bounds, taking advantage of freedoms they didn’t earn, leaching from the public for sympathy, you can just point out their hypocrisy and danger.
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Because they eventually go Batty.
Another indicator is comparison of what is accomplished. They have accomplished, after years of trailing the Church = absolutely nothing. Each stunt gets less attention.
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We have accomplished not only years of better communication and joy for millions, but an endearing and enduring organization that expels criminals like them and gets on with making a now and ensuring a future. I’m impressed with each new Ideal Org that gets set up because of that – it isn’t a cathedral to the sky, but a nice blend of resources that reflect the local culture, but creates efficient spaces for the important stuff; the training, the auditing, the quality control, the efficient administration of ethics, tech and admin.
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On this planet, there is nothing to compare.
It is so funny that we have to keep harping on such a basic thing, with overts and withholds, the justifiers that make up each thing they say. But they can’t get past that level – it is only a step up from communication, Level One, and they can’t make it. They would rather swim in the charge they have bypassed than deal with it.
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They must be some real dillies that they are trying to hide. Probably take a good 5 minute session if they were willing to be honest and confront.
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It is kind of an interesting science experiment to watch them dangle and writhe like that, but since I already know the effect, I’d rather see them get clean and stop their dwindling spiral.
“From my observation, nothing is ever as it appears with these people.”
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Exactly.
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From the Chart of Human Evaluation – 1.1 level: “Pseudo-ethical activities screen perversion of ethics.” “Ingenious and vicious perversions of truth. Covers lying artfully.”
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Sound like anyone you know?
Coming soon to a theater near you:
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Attack of the Killer Soulless Media Whore Zombies
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Starring:
- Marty “Soulless” Rathbun as Alpha Zombie
- Mike “Media Whore” Rinder as Lapdog Zombie
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The Trailer:
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Voiceover: They sold their souls for eternal life as rotting corpses, but how long could they remain in the spotlight without regular humans realizing what they really were?
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First scene:
Mrs Alpha Zombie: Oh Marty, the press are losing interest. What shall we do?
Marty: Uzugargu. Arragh Ugulp.
Mrs Alpha Zombie: Are you sure that will work?
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Another scene:
Child girlfriend of Lapdog Zombie: Oh Mike, it’s fallen off. What are we going to do?
Mike: Gagala ugragga bubblub.
Girlfriend: Yes I suppose a vibrator will just have to do and it couldn’t be much smaller than what you had.
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Voiceover: The horrifying story of a traitor turned zombie who sucked the life out of everything he touched. (Dramatic pause – the rotting hand of Alpha Zombie comes slowly out of the screen, reaching for YOU) Now in terrifying 3D!
[ ] All of the above.
That is absolutely deluxe. Thanks for the heads-up.
That would be so unfortunate for them. Should I be checking google for “IRS Bounty”?
” …what to keep/what to toss.”
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I have some ideas of what to toss, but I don’t know if I could write it without vulgarity, so I’ll pass for now.
Those are just the kind of people that want to talk to someone like Rathbun and Rinder. If people can be distracted by juicy slander and gossip, the environment for profit with wars and torture is safe another day.
“They are all “free” just like a bunch of psychology students.”
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Right, this is from the school of, “if it feels good do it.”
“And now they have spent what little fame-by-association that they had.”
—
Right – next they will mortgage it, then default and end up fighting foreclosure till the Sheriff kicks them out at which point they’ll sue for police brutality and so on and so on.
“That’s completely aside from the outright degraded activities like drug use/alcoholism, bizarre 2D conflicts, flagrant squirrelling ….)”
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I think Scott mentioned some of those squirrel actions: “… faux auditing, done without a C/S, without being ever trained or certified, done without a Qual, done without certified meters…”
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So, you’re saying that except for those few things, just those couple dozen gross anti-social and anti-tech things, you mean that because Rathbun is a declared fan of LRH, and except for the quirky murky mis-behavior like the above, that he would be a model auditor and course supervisor and case supervisor and qual terminal and spokesperson?
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Or am I confused here?
That is my feeling too. They lie about the simplest things, so you know that they are lying about the sophisticated. And each lie is just like taking a megaphone and telling the world about what their current transgressions are.
Giving a bad name to zombies by associating a group of liars and traitors like Rathbun and Rinder with them. But the visuals might be fun.
http://truthbetold.onsourcescn.com
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That is a real classy site. Thanks for pointing it out.
“Homo Sap tendencies are no excuse for any of us to abandon the Tech we have (Data Series/Science of Survival.)”
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So many tools that all point to the same thing: The Rathbun meat unit has taken over, The Rinder meat unit is wrapped around, the hyenas that stalk, all of them together can’t produce a thing. Where is Stinking Mess on the tone scale?
The topic is “Soulless Media Whores for 500″
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““Whore” implies selling your body. I’d say these jokers have sold their souls as well.”
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This all makes for funny stuff, but it really is sad when the attempt is a world without war and insanity, where honest people have rights. These are exactly the type of people who egg on the anti-social situations for their own personal gain – even if the gain is “not being found out.”
That’s a good point; all their flurries are forgotten, with no effect. It used to be that the internet buzz would be fired up for weeks when they had something that matched their low tone wavelength to gnaw on. Now the anti-Scientology lie machine gets a moment and is gone. As Rathbun and Rinder are the current whores and they can’t create an effect, the value of being a whore to the media must be pretty low.
That’s the Marty motto as he goes from one Program of Lies and Failed Purposes to another. He makes grand pronouncements that never complete, distorts stupid things like how wonderful his wedding night drunken jail term was.
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Out of the frying pan and into the sewer fit real well.
Hospitals closed per year and doctors thrown in jail for killing and torturing patients. My favorite stat.
Extreme media whores, perhaps?
or
Extreme whores for media?
Even applying some basic LRH data like the Conditions is too extreme for Rathbun and Associates, for obvious reasons.
Christine says: Giving a bad name to zombies by associating a group of liars and traitors like Rathbun and Rinder with them.
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Sorry to zombies everywhere for making such a degrading association.
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It’s hard to find something to compare Rathbun and Rinder to without offending somebody. I even had complaints from the CAS (Cockroach Appreciation Society) saying that at least cockroaches clean up the crap other creatures leave behind and demanding that I name just one constructive thing that Rathbun or Rinder have ever done. Well, what could I say to that?
1.1? Or maybe a muuuuch lower harmonic?
““…But that is the course of these attacks. All you have to do is ho-hum it and carry on one-way or the other.”
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What attacks? I just interviewed 10 people for a course that I am on, and I slipped in the question, “What do you think about people attacking the Church these days?” Only 1 person heard that there had been an article, and everyone said that they noticed that they don’t even get negative responses from people they meet anymore. By the way, these were all executives who have 20 or more employees and who use the internet for 2 hours a day. Pretty interesting group of people.
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It is too late for these Rathbun type people. I makes no sense that they call themselves independents. True Scientology, working with aligned technology, has won the fight against the APA and AMA – they are so weak that they can’t control governments like they used to. So, we can just get on with creating a better planet.
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Keep up the good work here.
WoW!!! Awesome site.
I really liked this one: http://truthbetold.onsourcescn.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=156:a-different-perspective
and http://truthbetold.onsourcescn.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=154:why-did-they-leave?&Itemid=89
You don’t think the news media is accurate? Aww come on. I read something the other day that was accurate. Let me see, what was it … oh, I know, the weather forecast. Oh wait, they said it would rain and it didn’t. Okay, so I guess you’re right.