Despite the occasional benign-sounding endorsement of other practices, telepathy with fish, or a once-yearly pattycake picnic, Marty Rathbun’s daily words and actions show vicious, destructive intent to even the most casual observer.
Rathbun’s obvious stock-in-trade is invalidation and nullification, and, with the help of other moribund souls like Mike Rinder, he works to spread as much invalidation as he possibly can at all times. He may try to make his criticisms noble-sounding or legitimate, but they each boil down to an effort to nullify and invalidate. It is what Rathbun does, and is the signature of his personality.
Even the untrained recognize such a personality as negative and destructive. No matter the ruses Rathbun uses to persuade others he’s doing “good work,” anyone can see that all his efforts are directed toward bringing things down.
“Above 2.0 the individual plays to win. Below 2.0 the individual uniformly plays to lose. And not only does the individual below 2.0 play to lose for himself, he plays to lose for everyone else around him and for the future.
It is part of the mechanism of death that individuals below 2.0 talk as though they play to win, talk of the desperate need of saving and winning, talk of emergencies by which one is expected to win. This is all part of the trap. Given every opportunity and every facility and every circumstance by which they can win, people below 2.0 will inject into every plan the germ of death and, acting ever so reasonably, will permit that germ to grow until death is attained for the individual, his associates, for the future or for his organization.”
LRH – Science of Survival
The everyday proof of this principle in Rathbun is in witnessing how he loses time and again. We’ve all seen his loses in the Headley case, the failed Montalvo “black operation,” the Germany fiasco, the laughable Berry petition strategy, and even his failed honeymoon. And that’s just scratching the surface.
The tragedy of Rathbun is not merely that he has consigned himself on a path toward the death of all his efforts, but that he lures others as well with his never-what-they-seem traps.
The real tragedy is that those who fall into his traps, are foolishly being brought down with him, while thinking they are moving a little higher.
“It is what Rathbun does, and is the signature of his personality.”
Nicely said. It’s the 500 pound gorilla that his followers try to ignore.
Simple and to the point. This is how I think of Rathbun and the other complainers. It amazes me how people grant believability to what he says when the signs are so obvious – the Caberta connection for one.
Spot on with the issue of the real tragedy of Marty, his followers. Marty uses them to bolster his sad life and his exchange is to trap them his his miseralble world. Some dude!
Marty’s bio of failure is a multi-volume epic. One I opt not to read.
Your pointing out of the data on below 2.0 is so fitting on Rathbun’s case. He can’t see it and neither can those connected to him or they would have long ago abandoned any connection with him.
Part of the Martyr Path perhaps? If he were to win, his (and their) narrative would go away. How could they blame their failures on COB if they had no failures?
This goes with the theory brought up long ago and proven in many ways: that they aren’t really followers, they aren’t really a group. All they are is a bunch of dramatizations and compulsions that happen to resonate at the same harmonics of hate and incompetence.
“The tragedy of Rathbun is not merely that he has consigned himself on a path toward the death of all his efforts, but that he lures others as well with his never-what-they-seem traps.”
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Usually I think that the picture is a great depiction of the rat and rind crowd. But these kids look so innocent. I don’t think that there is a chance that a true innocent would get into their circle, and unless they had similar hidden anti-social backgrounds they wouldn’t stay around. You certainly don’t see anyone cute in their crew!
“The real tragedy is that those who fall into his traps, are foolishly being brought down with him, while thinking they are moving a little higher.”
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In their dreams perhaps, but if what Rathbun brags about is what he has accomplished, then he has done nothing. One would expect more from a beginner getting her feet wet.
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The reality is that Rathbun brags but he really stays away from the chair, knowing he destroys and has no one to patch him up as he fails each person he should be helping. It is all one suppressive act now.
Interesting point really, since Rathbun has always had an awkward reputation. Imagine the desperation of these people who are forced to latch their withered hopes onto such a pre-failed vessel.
One by one, each Rathbun promise has been exposed to be a lie…and by his own actions and words! Poor febrile hopes of the ethically challenged.
Now Marty Rathbun is pretending to be a Davey Crockett and Mike a Jim Bowie. It looks like they were out in San Antonio busy giving Debbie Cook the best legal advice. Just like they did with Mark Headley (who lost) and with Daniel Montalvo (who lost and spent a bit of time in jail). In my opinion, this development couldn’t be better for the Church if Debbie Cook is stupid enough to be listening to these two. Their problem is that they are only out for themselves and are motivated by hate and revenge. They are willing to sacrifice Debbie in the process. She will surely end up as cannon fodder. She’s got nothing to win at all and everything to lose.
And I realized why most of the people on Marty Rathbun’s blog kiss his butt so much. He is probably just a bit higher toned than they are and as such, they are willing to follow someone who would only bring about their own destruction and the destruction their former religion if he were able to do what his destructive impulses dictate. That just ain’t going to happen. Rathbun and Mike Rinder are trying to destroy the Church and keep telling people it is happening. But they’ve been saying that for the past couple of years and meanwhile the Church keeps putting the ideal orgs there, put the International Dissemination Center there, the huge Bridge production facility, etc., etc. Other SPs before Rathbun and Rinder have been saying the same thing since the 50s.
“Rathbun’s obvious stock-in-trade is invalidation and nullification,…”
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Yes, it only takes reading a few paragraphs from Marty to see this. This puts him at odds with Scientology’s basic principles.
I couldn’t agree more that Mike and Marty only look upon Debbie and Wayne as a means to suit their own SP ends. Its same old same old and as we have seen time and time again, their “supporters” all slink away into oblivion never to see the Bridge again this lifetime or ever.
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They may not realize it but Backsliders read on an e-meter up the track – in the words of LRH. So it won’t be forgotten and nor will they be able to forget, no matter how hard they try. But they will more than likely become the cinder LRH speaks of and certainly being connected to the likes of the psycho Marty and the abuser Mike, that’s pretty much a given.
What else would you expect from an SP?
Can I give you an OMG???!!??? That is one brilliant analysis. Imagine, the Rat and Rind being the high-toned ones, yet being surrounded by advancing LRH and Church, mocking their every move with its constant and consistent successes.
Who needs to? Rathbun tried, Rathbun was discovered, Rathbun invented, Rathbun was discovered again. He’ll try something in the future, and he’ll be discovered again. The pattern repeats until he makes the final gesture of proving us wrong.
You’re probably talking about a lot of people who never learned to “look, don’t listen” and think Rat and Rin are “good execs” and know what they are doing. People who listen to what a person says and not look at what a person does. That may sound really obvious and stupid for me to point this out, but I think you can’t overestimate the Rat’s choir. How else could they overlook the overt products just in the last two years?
I don’t know if it’s desperation or just not having a life. When I’ve read the people who support him I always wonder why they make this kind of stupid, non-productive thing their life. Lonely, I guess.
Blinded and incompetent. What a great combination these Rathbunettes have.
No, they can’t see it, and hearing what they have to say indicates clearly that they are at inverted levels on various scales, and think they are up when in fact they are down. The theetie-weetie tenor of their comm is a clear indication of that, particularly when that shatters to one degree or another, and their viciousness comes through.
Rathbun has always and will always promote his every action as a success of some kind, most of it hallucinatory cause. He’s constantly stroking himself publicly, and he’s got a handful who believe the strokes. That doesn’t stop most of it from being delusion.
This is a great post and point, Vince. Rathbun is plainly a destructive personality, and he’s getting worse at hiding it.
People at his level are “consigned” as you say and have no choice but to get worse (without any genuine tech being applied to them, and you know he won’t be doing that.)
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l’d like to feel sorry for those who subscribe to his little campaign, but can’t because they have had the same opportunity to duplicate and apply the tech and elevate themselves as the rest of us, but didn’t. Worse, some have had plenty of genuine tech and got themselves into an entheta games condition with the Church.
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They have consigned themselves, too.
The everyday proof of this principle in Rathbun is in witnessing how he loses time and again. ”
Shows you how blind some people are willing to be when they have some kind of axe to grind.
This is actually one of my favorites from SOS. That is the area where LRH talks about domination and nullification and their aberrative effects on a case.
It’s interesting how you can go back to basics and strip away all the smoke and mirrors from Rathbun and show how he’s just a nowhere case (after all those years) and is stuck back where he started, and probably even worse because now he *knows* there’s no bridge for him.
“people below 2.0 will inject into every plan the germ of death and, acting ever so reasonably, will permit that germ to grow until death is attained for the individual, his associates,”
This part reminds me of Rathbun crying in the police cruiser wondering how this “could have happened” to him!
“Their problem is that they are only out for themselves and are motivated by hate and revenge. They are willing to sacrifice Debbie in the process. She will surely end up as cannon fodder.”
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Very likely the pitch is that they are all together in this. In reality, Rathbun will get down on his hands and knees to choke anyone in his fear that he will choke again (and again) (and again). Debbie Cook has already lost, and she probably knows it.
You’re right, it is totally obvious how Rathbun has screwed up just about everything, but then tries to paint it like he won. Good luck to those guys who don’t see that.
“Yes, it only takes reading a few paragraphs from Marty to see this. This puts him at odds with Scientology’s basic principles.”
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A few words is enough for me. Rathbun has nothing to do with Scientology.
“…more than likely become the cinder LRH speaks of and certainly being connected to the likes of the psycho Marty and the abuser Mike, that’s pretty much a given.”
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I’m not surprised or disappointed to be reminded of this.
Seems to me he brags about a lot, but didn’t really accomplish what he says he did. Wasn’t he going to Germany to “handle” them on Scientology, but just ended up making things worse for anyone who ever had anything to do with it?
If they weren’t sucked dry before, Rathbun must have them as husks by now.
If she listens to Rathbun and Rinder she will put the lie to her email appeal. Her connecting up with them is like them connecting up with Caberta, no?
Rathbun and Rinder are still chasing a kind of Holy Grail of getting their natter points on the record in open court. That’s probably why they have descended on Cook, and she will be used by them as sure as the sun shines.
It doesn’t matter to them that federal justice and law enforcement officials saw their claims for the obsessive nuttery that they are and dismissed them, or that the White House told them to go fish, or that the Headleys had to pay through the nose for having followed Rathbun’s legal genius advice.
Debbie’s welcome to their “help” if you ask me. She’s earned it.
She’s all-in now. You are for sure not going to see her get better.
If you look at all the blame she engaged in, you can see that she has elected herself effect. How well did that work? Well, she pulled in Rat and Rin. It can’t get much worse, but it will.
You can just check in here for updates.
When someone gets totally caught up in such a motivating games condition like she has, they can’t see honestly. She won’t even look at Rathbun/Rinder’s string of failed handlings but will buy their salesmanship and get used, like you said.
This of course, will be another big lose for Rathbun, who will be able to divorce himself from it and still try to appear like the blame belongs elsewhere.
Well put.
Compulsion. They can’t help it. Lonely is a fallout. Stupid is a fallout. Desperation. Maybe a fallout, maybe a feature – they probably think that the psychotic behavior makes them look busy and important. Yeah; I am sold. The Marty Munchers are busy and important. Hehhh heh…I crack myself up.
Unbelievable. I know this innately, yet I can’t imagine that others could screw that up. What a great point Lion. My bet is that they do know, because a being knows, but they have to keep “not observing” so their victim-status logics will all align.
Thanks. These simplicities are what make the drool really flow for a Marty type. He can dance and sing and convince a few percent who are already looking for their hate validation, but for most of the planet he is a washed up wannabe. You can see that he knows it too. All those circles of mumbling. The immediate strokes of anger. The BS lies when stay shut up would be more efficient – remember when he said that jail was where he wanted to be after being thrown in the drunk tank???
He is trending toward irrelevancy, isn’t he? He’s like the expert ex-generals who just happen to show up on TV who just happen to agree with a war inclined president about how horrid something is…years later we find out that Marty types are full of …what is that word? some technical term. Full of ….
I’m getting on a “the being knows” kick – they try to play victim, they try to act like their inability to discern is a justifier for their current desert-wanderings-while-searching-for-truth, and their later pleading for mercy. But they know. Their stupidity serves them for some reason. Probably because of some ethical challenge that they are choosing not to meet.
Ha! He hopes to act like a jerk and then hit RESET some day, but reset for him will be a puddle of pooh. Tough luck Marty and you Marty bots.
Personally? I’d like to see some internal logic instead of Marty/Mike being over the map with the obvious sales pitches of the day. They are either obviously setting up some stupidity of the future or trying to make up for some stupidity of the recent past. I don’t know why they bother. The little sap suckers who feed off their excreta will buy anything (the more clever ones having left already, in advance of the imminent slaughter), and the press won’t bother to read anything more than “Scientology is Bad because I am a victim”…
Big Rubber Stamp: Consigned! I like it. Thanks for drawing out the point Sharpe. I get the idea much better.
“Shows you how blind some people are willing to be when they have some kind of axe to grind.”
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That's the difference, isn't it. These "gotta prove LRH wrong, gotta prove COB wrong, gotta prove myself right, gotta make myself right so I can save the world" types are convulsing with their compulsion and don't observe whether Marty and Mike are still on the same page or not.
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With LRH you know. You study, you observe, you demo, you see that it aligns with your goals of today and yesterday and tomorrow, you see that it aligns with your view of ethics. There isn't going to be a switch in the Goals of Scientology to make them align with Graham Berry and Cowberta, or some C/S who dingles with her PC while in the auditing room with him.
Right! because his actions couldn’t have anything to do with his poor victim status, it is all COB who made him drink to excess, harass some kids and then the horses of the cop. What a freakin’ loser these people are putting their hopes in. They have to know how this will end.
Short Answer: Yes.
Long Answer: F’in’ A, Yes.
Huh. Teacher said ‘handful’.
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Totally agree. Stroking himself in public is the right description, though the image will somewhat ruin the rest of my day.
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And "hallucinatory cause" is the phrase of the decade. Exactly fits.
I like this “knows it” theme. It really vacates the victim thing, of course, and would take so long to prove. Perhaps having to listen to 5 or 6 of their simpering “reasons” why and you would have them in some internal illogic. They know, they know they know and they are too stupid to get their ethics in.
Excellent Excellent Excellent Points Philo – Debbie should read them twice.
They don’t want to look. Imagine pretending to yourself you were trying to “do the right thing” and ignoring the fact that you are directly supporting and endorsing those who have made it their life’s work to destroy Scientology and LRH altogether. That’s a pretty damn solid not-is.
It’s the only thing he’s good at, and he isn’t good enough to fool anyone who can apply the tone scale well – pretended production.
“Rathbun and Mike Rinder are trying to destroy the Church and keep telling people it is happening. But they’ve been saying that for the past couple of years and meanwhile the Church keeps putting the ideal orgs there…”
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Critics have been doing this for decades – loudly claiming a impending demise. They continue to be foolishly wrong as they vainly attempt to ignore the Church’s expansion.
I have been living in Sacramento for quite sometime now, and I attended the recent grand opening of the new Ideal Org in my town. I did some checking of figures that Marty just pawns off as if he “has SPOKEN!” Heard Marty saying that Sacramento never made more than 10 million in its entire existence. Really Marty you are a moron and have become very good in making things up and lie. Sacramento passed the 10 million mark a long time ago. As for your 10 million figure – wrong again,it’s more. In case you are reading this yes I know you Marty. You booted me out of the Church but I got it sorted out years ago. You never cared about Sacramento, you never went to the org, but you have the nerve to come out and spew a bunch of lies as if you are Mr. Know-it-all when you know jack! Check out the Expansion News link on this site if you have the confront to read it before you explode by seeing how beautiful Sacramento org is. Thank god you are gone, no one misses you.
Insiders amongst Marty camp are getting confused — on one hand Marty rants and raves against donations and on the other hand, he is out there with cap in hand. He is into fundraising himself and yet that is one of his natters about the Church. His Alamo positioning was a fail marketing gimmick for his fundraising scam. As for supporting the San Antonio friend, boy is that a match made in who knows where. So inquiring minds are wondering why Marty, Mike and the San Antonio friend are doing exatly what they have accused the Church of doing.
There isn’t an HCOB or an HCOPL that Marty doesn’t squirrel and as a result he puts every one of his PCs on the road to hell. I know, I went there. All I can say is that his lunatic ways are coming more and more to the fore. I feel sorry for Mosey.. She was a very hospitable hostess and a great cook ….. why she married that fruitcake still bewilders me (no pun intended).
Good Eye Lion. I bet you are really point on. Pretended Production, writ large.
She is like them all in that – can’t be wrong, gotta prove rightness in the face of several idiot moves and several several idiot fails.
Get down John!!! That is the kind of report that is always available for every one of Rathbun’s tales…always a lie, wherever he goes, whatever he says.
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Thanks for that. So good to read.
Yes, surprising. That would only be the 854th time that it has been noticed that Marty and Mike are actually doing things that they accuses others of doing.
“There isn’t an HCOB or an HCOPL that Marty doesn’t squirrel and as a result he puts every one of his PCs on the road to hell.”
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That should be etched – hmmm, I can’t think of the best place to etch it. Ideas?
Foolishly wrong. The grand summary and final epitaph of the RatRind crowd.
“This of course, will be another big lose for Rathbun, who will be able to divorce himself from it and still try to appear like the blame belongs elsewhere.”
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Do you not just love the way he twists blame so efficiently so that he can be the victim one more time? Personally, I would be embarrassed to have so little control over my life.
I can’t feel sorry for her. Even without any training, she’s aware enough to know Rathbun is a violent, corrupt individual, but chooses to overlook it. She knows that he means real harm to genuine Scientologists.
Yes, his lunacy has been hard to hide for a while now. Putting aside all his insane decisions (Berry, Caberta, Bunker, etc.) his frustration is building and I see him likely to explode soon enough.
Rathbun, Rinder and most of the other insiders in his group have no problem explaining their grotesque inconsistencies. That’s not fundraising – that’s necessary defense caused by someone else – the big, bad Church (for wanting it’s contract honored.) Bunker isn’t a lifelong LRH degrader, he’s a “good guy” who only wants to salvage our religion. Caberta isn’t a drug-addled and corrupt two-and-a-half-percenter, she just wants to end bad practices (!)
And best of all, Rathbun isn’t anti-LRH and anti-Scientology, he just wants to apply “standard tech” and do “good work” while he’s “salvaging the subject.”
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The fact is that Rathbun is a lying joke, and anyone with a grain of intelligence can see that. Those who don’t see it, deserve him.
I wonder if there are any inquiring minds among his choir – I haven’t bothered to look. If there are, they probably don’t have the nerve to ask him about it on his blog. Rathbun wouldn’t take that well, and Rinder would assault them verbally, and they would not be trusted again (as if they are now.)
They will always accuse the Church of doing what they themselves have been doing, being the Criminal Minds they are. They’ve been doing that for a while, and they didn’t start attacking finance until well after they had stacked up a lot of things they would like to hide in their own financial dealings anyway. You can count on that.
That’s standard Rathbun behavior. This is the incontrovertible squirrel who accuses the Church of being “non-standard.”
That should tell you how upside down Rathbun’s little universe is.
She’s got a lot invested in Marty now, and in my opinion, she’s into caring for him. Some women are like that, and she probably feels he would go to pieces without her.
It’s like the prison groupies. They fall for the bad guy and pretend he’s really a good guy only misunderstood. Mary’s misunderstood alright – we thought he was a good guy when he never was.
Don’t forget deaf.
Marty can talk to fish? Interesting, maybe that’s what happened in the harbor last year when millions of fish turned up dead. They just couldn’t take another word.